it’s easy to say that if you are not a developer. Those 21 guys pay back fees at least to developers. Uniswap and Etherium do nothing - I will build my cfc.io/defi on BSC for those reasons.
And if you find it to be a deadend, 1 or 2 years down the road, will you have spent your time wisely building on BSC?
Can you trust that Binance won’t just fold up the BSC and stick to their centralised exchange?
Ethereum, and other chains, have proven themselves far more committed to what blockchain tech is built for. BSC looks like a bit of opportunistic marketing of a platform that is still in the hands of one small group of people, creating a single point of failure.
As I said, Etherium does nothing for developers. This is why BCS will replace it.
and uniswap will move out of game, if don’t support bcs
If you believe that Uniswap will die, it’s not very clever of you to spend time here…
…just like it’s not very clever of you to spend time creating projects on BSV.
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I have the same thoughts on DeFi, however as a pragmatic software engineer and capitalist, competition is still at the core of this. Fortunately blockchain has seen less cutthroat competition and more collaboration.
While the ultimate goal is decentralization, the average person with no technical experience simply will not be able to comfortably jump into a fully decentralized and crowdsource-coded platform, we’re still at the awkward phase where we need good on-ramps, which require liquidity, backing, and support.
You’ve also ommitted the comments I’ve made where I’ve said that I want a better solution to BSC. Frankly, if you don’t like that BSC is taking market share, make a proposal.
We could easily use the UNI pool to fund developers to fork an EVM chain where UNI is the base token, allowing for Uniswap functions to take place with low fees, then immediately be bridged back to Ethereum.
I also don’t see any work being done on the code base in preparation for UNI running as a sharded Dapp or an ETH Validator Node once 2.0 comes out.
I’m not shilling CZ or Binance by saying that they have a fantastic UI, transaction speeds, and low costs, that’s just a fact. If ETH cuts into my profits, but I have another option that lets me continue the same level of passive income, I’ll take it, knowing that as the space matures I will be able to “have my cake and eat it too” when it comes to ease-of-use and cost.
I’m not changing my stance that DeFi will eventually be P2P, decentralized, and fully open-source. However it’s the responsibility of the party that feels like they’re being slighted to do something about it. I see a lot of complaining, and not many solutions. If it’s that big of a problem, let’s come up with a game plan everyone.
I’ve stated multiple times that I’m willing to offer my knowledge with building chains, bridges, networks, and DApps should the community wish. It’s an open invitation, I’d rather not use BSC, but it’s the fastest most liquid option at the moment.
I believe in uniswap but don’t believe to projects, who don’t care about developers will have long term life
Is this a paid post by Binance?
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I was thinking the same.
@heyJonBray writing such long answers to comments does look like paid advertising campaign by CZ.
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@pesho
I know online conversation has devolved, but forgive me for diving into some of the nuance of the current situation.
I’m not all-in one any one chain. For all we know both ETH & BSC could be completely dominated by another chain.
I’ll use bullet points and keep my point of view short for you:
- Active users looking to build wealth are going to go to the most profitable system.
- The entire ecosystem of blockchains are maturing and changing, fast.
- DApps need to be ready to evolve to meet those changes.
Unipig was literally something I referenced in a post regarding choosing topics for proposals through a “versus” staking model. It’s a brilliant and simple mechanism for everything from governance, to prediction markets, to games. I’ve had quite a lot of fun applying variations token and other models to the Unipig code.
Is this the first bubble you’ve been through?
Did you think the path to decentralization would be smooth and without compromise?
That’s not how it works. Look at every lasting project from the ICO bubble, Bitcoin, Ethereum, even UniSwap, they all started out with a core team that bootstrapped the software and ran it themselves for a while and worked the bugs out before releasing it to the public, or waiting for a network effect to take over. We’re going to have more centralized systems and less centralized systems, but they’re all going to coexist together regardless of how you feel about it. Especially in FOSS, if you don’t do it, someone else will do it and you won’t get a say in how that one is done.
Hell, even Satoshi mined the first million or so blocks of BTC. It didn’t stop everyone else from benefiting, if anything it helped out.
Granted now we’re talking about the pathways of communication, the blockchains themselves, but the same thing has to happen. There’s going to be some decentralized chains that have a huge network effect but they’re still working out the bugs. There’s going to be some privately controlled or very centralized chains that offer great services at a cheaper cost, but maybe at a compromise of centralization or privacy. They can coexist, and it’s good that they can. You don’t want all your eggs in one basket this early in the process. The centralization has also helped provide extremely rapid development as well as a huge free library on blockchain technology, onboarding outreach, and data-driver research on tokens.
Industry has always been able to get things done faster than the government, that’s going to take some time and work to iron out now that they’re one-in-the-same.
There’s always going to be a compromise somewhere in life, that’s no reason to dismiss any alternative that **your project ** (you’re here which means this is yours too) could run on as an alternative in case of emergency, or even flourish due to new exposure.
Uniswap should have been ported to BSC as soon as it was released because it’s basically copy and paste. It should have been up on NEO before Flamingo even finished farming their tokens.
Uniswap should have been converting the code so the app could run on ALGO and Cardano. I’ve forked UniSwap and am currently working on the two chains to make future integration easier should we decide to do so. We need to do so.
If new users come on from other chains, that’s only going to increase the TLV of the system, we can figure out how to onboard new users with $UNI without diluting it.
But dismissing BSC is like a software language refusing to operate on Mac out of some principle, this isn’t a shill for any one chain, I’m pointing out what most people don’t realize: it’s bigger than Ethereum vs. BSC. Eventually, we’re going to be fluidly moving our personal value and assets in the form of utility tokens with real-world applications through various blockchains to facilitate an incredible amount of processes.
At the intersection of the “Value Store” coins (BTC, ETH, BNB…) and Utility Tokens lies Uniswap. It’s the exchange machine that lets you put your assets into it, let them work for you or provide you services, and then transfer them back into your store of value. That niche will be the clearing house for the next industrial revolution and since competition isn’t going anywhere, in the next decade there’s going to be a few “pillar” projects that fill this niche that have a TLV with more zeroes than you’ve ever seen before.
@pesho, I don’t write these long posts because I love CZ, or because I have any personal feeling on one chain versus another at this point, the space is too young to take sides. I spend the time to write long posts because I think it’s important to look at the nuance of a situation for a change instead of just reacting and dismissing anything that seems threatening. The lasting projects aren’t going to be the ones that are worried about what’s happening next quarter or next upgrade, they’re the ones worried about what’s going to happen in 5 years from now.
We can stay ahead of the curve, we need to stay ahead of the curve. What Uniswap does regarding fluid use across multiple chains is bigger than what you or I think of CZ, Binance, or ETH, it’s the difference between providing an integral service to humanity and industry or forever becoming a relic in the Ethereum blockchain, with a last transaction getting buried under millions of future blocks.
I think this happens to be the exact reason why Uniswap doesn’t care about BSC.
Uniswap doesn’t worry about the current congestion in the Ethereum network, because it seems extremely likely to be solved within a few months tops.
BSC is a low quality quick fix for a project like Uniswap.
A Chinese-owned centralized chain run by a company that can’t even allow US users is nothing but a quick money grab.
They might bill themselves “blockchain” and “defi”, but without decentralization such projects are nothing but overly complicated databases.
Uniswap on a centralized chain would provide nothing more than Coinbase, Kraken, and Binance already provide.
Uniswap on Ethereum is currently the only way to attain the only thing blockchain is truly about: decentralization.
It seems to me like your values and motivations have separated from Ethereum’s and Uniswap’s.
Decentralization isn’t a “nice to have”.
Decentralization is what it’s all about.
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You still don’t get the picture. Ethereum will not be the only smart chain, nor do we want that.
No quotes needed, it’s a blockchain by definition, and DeFi (also by definition). A distributed computational network is hardly just an overly complicated database.
So short sighted.
Ethereum is not the most decentralized chain. It’s just the largest by market cap. What do you think happens when ETH2 rolls out and they’re using validator nodes with a high cost of entry? Is that distributed enough for you when your average person can’t go out and run a full node and take all advantage of the full network features?
You can be a validator and get the base transactional layer for a cool, easy $50,000. At least Binance and Algorand tells you up front how much everything costs and have detailed EULAs.
You’re painting a black and white picture when in reality, as things come to fruition, there will be many shades of grey, with varying amounts of decentralization. You can say:
But guess what, this is brand new. There’s no data to back that up, and no way you could make a judgement call on my values, I’m a FOSS blockchain developer, If I cared about centralization I’d save myself the headache and take an executive job with AWS but I love what a decentralized future holds. But, I’m not so naive to think that everything in the future will be decentralized or that Ethereum will rule DeFi.
Also, don’t confuse decentralized with distributed. Sure, ETH is more distributed, I guess… it depends on what metric. Sparkpool controls 25% of the hashpower of Ethereum. Is that decentralized? Well, It’s half way to a 51% attack so I’ll let you decide for yourself if the glass is really half full or half empty; Two pools coordinate, and a single entity with enough capital comes into Sparkpool and the fact that they already have the numbers means trouble.
It’s less decentralized than < 25 validator nodes with a max 4% network each? Not even that. Does it have nodes spread out globally. Sure, BSC is run by CZ and his “cronies”, ETH is run by a handful of dev groups, The Foundation, and their “cronies”, just like all the other chains are run by the creators and their cronies.
Don’t let the open governance of DApps and DAOs confuse you into thinking that the underlying chain is a utopia, ETH still has controlling interests who maintain a good portion of the network.
I love Ethereum, but seriously look at the big picture. If UNI pretends like Ethereum is the end-all for DeFi, we’ve got another thing coming, because that is 100% not going to be the case. We can cater to what could possibly be a niche chain (I know it’s blasphamous to say, but it’s 100% possible given historical software development… 1st doesn’t always mean best.)
I’m assuring you with 20+ years of seeing companies come and go, of developing network protocols, apps, and everything in between. If Uniswap doesn’t accept and take advantage of the fact that the future will be people switching between chains based on their needs, they’re giving up the position of “Value Store” and “Utility Distributor” to another project that I guarantee will be compatible on all smart-contract enabled chains.
I’m not suggesting splitting UNI 50/50 between Ethereum and BSC, but in the decade we’ll likely have 3-4 main, stable, saleable computational blockchains that people switch between based on what each one offers. Competition isn’t going anywhere, it’s getting bigger and it’s going from DApps to entire chains.
Except BSC is playing the long game that Uniswap is unwilling to play, they’re enticing people by launching ready to go with a suite of DApps that can milk from Ethereum as long as they can. You want us to keep getting our TLV on Ethereum sucked up by other chains or would you rather do something about it and hedge against that by beating them at their own game.
They can’t run Uniswap out of business if Uniswap is on every smart chain because that is true decentralization; not how many nodes one chain has vs another or whether they use PoS or PoA. If you can’t see where this whole space is going after everything we’ve talked about I’m sorry, and very grateful that you don’t have a controlling vote in UNI Gov.
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Your condescending tone doesn’t deserve an answer.
Good luck with BSC.
It’s clear that most people here are not developers, It’s like talking in a different language. If you didn’t program software during the last tech boom and bust cycle you really have no grounds to speak on what makes for a good software stack.
That’s all this is, a good software stack. An app (Uniswap) that should be chain agnostic unless it wants to shoot itself in the foot.
But hey, call me a shill, tell me I’m wrong. I’ve been around long enough to know what happens when you’re diehard to one software stack; you end up dying on it.
Let them eat cake!
I’ll sit back and watch what happens while non-experts try to run a system that’s so far above their heads. It will be like real life government!
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My tone isn’t condescending, It’s frustrated. Frustrated because I’ve seen this over and over again, and so many people cannot accept the facts. You’ll comment all day on anything I say negative about ETH but why not address all the valid points I brought up?
Is it because I am in fact correct?
Yes! 20 years in the business and you learn a thing or two. The first is that unless you’ve been deep in software design, you have no idea how quickly something like BSC can dominate the market if they want.
If you dislike BSC, even more reason to be on their system. Know how they work, take advice from their protocols, collect data, use it to make Ethereum better. Know your enemy.
If you want to take my experience as condescending, that’s on you, you’ve added nothing to this conversation except for baseless objections. I’m under no obligation to take your capacity for offense into account when I’m simply trying to explain how software stacks and system agnostic vs. dogmatic programs generally turn out.
I’ve spent most of your life doing development and network building, I’ve earned the right to say matter-of-fact things, because I am an expert. If you can’t take an experts advice, at least listen to it and consider it then you’re lost.
I’m explaining how software cycles work. I’m not degrading anyone, not dismissing anything, just telling you how it works time and time again.
You don’t have to like the game, but you 100% have to play it if you’re going to stay around. Once the opportunity presents itself, then you’re spread across multiple chains, you have say all of a sudden in more than once place. How on earth can we compete with PancakeSwap if we’re not even on the same network…
Have you seen the relative dominance increases in ETH vs. BSC?
Have you seen the TLV spreading out to other chains?
USDT is on 5 chains now, do you think one day it’s just going to snap back to Ethereum only? No, that would be insane.
If you stay on Ethereum only, you also get no say or influence in any other chain, quite possibly the most important thing you can have. Don’t like how centralized BSC is? Port Uniswap, split the value between chains, and de-incentivize BSC users, you can’t do anything from the sidelines though. DApps can eclipse you, make new protocols, do whatever they want, and you’ll be none the wiser because you’re so narrow sighted that all you see is ETH Dominance.
I’m sorry, I tried to help. I offered my time to build a bridge just for Uniswap, to port the code to literally any chain and help with the tokenomics as new TLV comes in because I have experience doing so in a safe manner, but don’t mention that when you’re responding.
The UNI airdrop made me rethink how money and value will work, the UNI governance made me realize most people are not ready to govern themselves because they think they know everything.
Learn the hard way, once you see how network effects knock out the least convenient options maybe then you’d like to have a discussion like two adults.
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yes yes it is a problem …
BSC is growing fast and covering a lot of market, I don’t think it’s good. Binance is expanding and growing at a very fast rate, centralizing the profit in a few and, obviously, among them are not the users. The question would be, are we different from Binance, Coinbase? …
I think there are no doubts … what do you think?
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I still think that we are early enough in DeFi that there is nothing wrong with centralized exchanges bringing more exposure and users into the space.
Using Trust Wallet and BSC taught a friend of mine so much about DeFi because of the speed and cheap cost of entry, they would not have had the money to do that on ethereum.
Now that they have a base of knowledge I can show them decentralized Solutions, as I said in a previous post, it’s important for teams to bootstrap programs, it’s important for communities to push the needle towards decentralization. BSC dominance has been on the rise for what, a month, and people are acting like they’re going to lock all the value in DeFi on their chain and never let anyone take it off.
There’s so many better, truly decentralized smart chains emerging right now.
The only threat to Uniswap is not keeping up with the switch from separate chains to a network of blockchains.
Yes, it is true that many chains are emerging, but they have not proven to be better. For the moment we must continue testing. Trust is not given, it is earned and for this you have to work hard …
ETH is making a great effort to update it. I am confident that it will continue to lead the smart contract industry …
time will tell, but in leadership, experience, and market confidence, nobody beats them, at least for the moment
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